Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  "So, it is possible that Job would send and sanctify his sons after each multi-day banquet was completed."

  Ahh! Thank you for that clarification. It makes more sense now.
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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  Cappytan, I'm not convinced the banquets held by Job's sons were birthday banquets for one reason: Job 1:5 indicates that Job would offer sacrifices when the banqueting had "gone round the circuit". That expression indicates that the banquets were held one after the other and the whole affair was concentrated within a small period of time in the year - about a month or two at most. Is it very reasonable to think that Jobs sons were all born so close together on the calendar? If it were birthdays it would be spread out throughout the year and there would be no talk about festivities going around in a circuit and job offering sacrifices at the end. They would be spread out throughout the year and job would be offering sacrifices at the end of each one.  
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  16

  Preaching... a requirement for baptism?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i have been doing some reading lately.

  i have yet to bump into the text that show that preaching is a requirement to qualify for baptism.

  in fact, i have read more paragraphs that say otherwise.

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  Island Man

  Not only is preaching not a requirement to qualify for baptism, but, contrary to what Watchtower teaches, the work of active formal evangelizing is not even required of all christians!

  And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers - Ephesians 4:11

  JWs treat qualifying for baptism as if it were passing your college exams to graduate from college. But in reality, qualifying for baptism is more like meeting the basic requirements to enter into college.

  When you look at the NT it is clear that one only needs to know the good news about Jesus, repent, and exercise faith in him to qualify for baptism. They grow in knowledge and understanding and mature further, after they're already baptized.

  Something else about JW baptism that is clearly unscriptural is the long delay that candidates have to wait between qualifying and actually being baptized. The scriptures show that those who qualified were baptized teh same day that they were convinced. (Acts 2:41; Acts 8:36-38; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 16:33; Acts 22:16) The NT indicates that those who qualified were baptized immediately, without delay. Peter didn't even wait for Cornelius to resign from the army before baptizing him! JWs let baptismal candidates wait up to 6 months or however long until the next assembly or convention, before being baptized. The urgency of the person's salvation has to take a back seat to gloating and grandstanding over new recruits at the convention.

  Imagine a scenario where a person is qualified to be baptized but he obeys the elders and the organization by delaying his baptism until the convention. But the end comes before the convention! Jesus says to him:

  "Why are you not baptized?"

  Person: "I already qualify and would be - would have been - baptized at the upcoming convention but the ... you ... have intervened. But I'm already dedicated and that's the most important thing, right?"

  Jesus: "Why did you not get baptized without delay as soon as you qualifed?"

  Person: "That's not how its done in the organization. The person has to wait until the next assembly or convention"

  Jesus: "Did my faithful Witness, Cornelius, wait until the next convention? Did you never read of what Candace's attendant said to Philip when he qualified: "What prevents me from getting baptized?" You let men prevent you from getting baptized. You have shown greater affection for elders and for organization than for me. You are not worthy of me. Depart from me, you cowardly follower of men! To the lake of fire with you! There is where your weeping and gnashing of teeth will be."

  
  
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  21

  Giving comments at meetings that cause cognitive dissonance while keeping yourself below elder radar for apostasy

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well i'm sure we can come up with clever comments that make people feel uncomfortable by serving to decompartmentalize things that have been compartmentalized in the thinking of the average jw.

  or comments that make the cognitive dissonance stand out plainly, these have to be said in innocent manner and with an apparent obliviousness to the contradiction.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/compartmentalization_%28psychology%29.

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  Island Man

  Your old friend wasn't subtle enough. His statement clearly implied that Watchtower/JWs are lying when they say 1975 is just apostate rubbish. He went too far. He should have omitted saying "really" and he should have omitted saying "not an apostate rumor". He over did it.
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  71

  Are we heading for III World War?

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the leaders of russia, germany, france and ukraine are slated to meet in minsk (the belarusian capital) tomorrow to discuss a ukrainian peace plan!

  some countries such as hollande believe there is going to be a total war.

  when they met last year in the same place, they had put forward a peace plan (a ceasefire, withdrawal of artillery, prisoner exchanges and other concessions) that were never fully implemented!

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  Island Man

  "After the World War II, Nosterdamus predicted 57 years of peace (In fulfillment we actually experienced PEACE only 56 years and 9 months)"

  So you mean there was no Vietnam war? There was no cold war? There was no Iran-Iraq war? There was no war between North and South Korea? No Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? No war in Lebanon? No war in Liberia and other parts of Africa? Really? Oh how we conveniently re-define peace in such a way as to ignore all the wars that have happened since WWII, just so as to give validation to Nostradamus' prophecies! LOL
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  25

  Do the Rank & File JW's REALLY read and understand the bible to be able to REALLY start a study with someone???

  by ADJUSTMENTS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i believe the average rank & file are illiterate when it come to the bible because they are so used to using the wbats cliff notes... even though i believe the bible is a fiction novel, at least be able to explain a novel you hold is such high regard: i mean jesus!!!

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  Island Man

  No. JWs don't know what bible study is. JWs study Watchtower publications which selectively quote and cite individual bible verses out of context to support Watchtower teachings. The bible is not the focus of their study. The publications are. They merely use (and abuse) the bible to validate the teachings of their organization.

  JWs have a finite collection of bible verses that they are familiar with and that they cite and quote over and over again to support key Watchtower teachings. The rest of the bible is largely unknown to them. They are familiar with just enough of the bible to support Watchtower's teachings.

  Once Watchtower has gotten hold of their minds, any reading of the bible by JWs is then done, not with an honest, open mind, but with a closed mind having Watchtower blinders on. JWs profess to regard the bible as the final authority on doctrine. But the reality of their actions reveal that it is actually Watchtower - "the Society" or "the Organization".

  Show a JW any clear passage of scripture that contradicts a Watchtower teaching and see what the JW will do. He will not accept what the scripture is plainly saying and acknowledge that Watchtower is wrong. No. Instead he will say to himself: "What does the society say about this scripture? Let me check the Watchtower Library and see..." And the JW will accept whatever explanation Watchtower gives, however twisted, however disingenuous, however illogical as being the truth about what the scripture actually means, and he will ignore what the scripture actually very plainly says.
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  26

  Jesus died for US...technically

  by enigma1863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

  that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

  people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

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  Island Man

  (John 3:16) . . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

  (John 8:24) . . .Therefore I said to YOU, YOU will die in YOUR sins. For if YOU do not believe that I am [he], YOU will die in YOUR sins.. . .

  (Acts 3:22, 23) . . .In fact, Moses said, ‘Jehovah God will raise up for YOU from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me. YOU must listen to him according to all the things he speaks to YOU. 23 Indeed, any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.. . .

  
  
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  15

  Is the UN really the disgusting thing?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  been dwelling on this for a while.

  was there any particular history on this or anywhere where the wt picked up someone else's doctrine?.

  in most cases, the bible uses the word "disgusting thing" to refer to idols, idolatry and false religion.

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  Island Man

  Ditto to what Londo said. By the way, given that the gospels applied that particular story in the saga of the king of the north and the king of the south, to the Roman desolation of Jerusalem, how is it that Watchtower applies some of the earlier prophecies in the same saga to events that have happened in more modern times?

  The saga of the king of the North and the king of the South is clearly written in chronological order so the earlier prophecies before the disgusting thing that caused desolation can't possibly be interpreted as applying to times later than the Roman desolation.
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  26

  Jesus died for US...technically

  by enigma1863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

  that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

  people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

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  Island Man

  Here's what I don't get about the whole Jesus died for us thing:

  Adam sinned for us consigning us all to death whether we believe in Adam or not. So we all automatically "benefit" from Adam's sin. But when it comes to Jesus dying for us, we don't all automatically benefit. We must believe in Jesus to benefit from his death. And yet, in spite of this clear difference, the bible has the gall to say this:

  But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many. - Romans 5:15

  "The undeserved kindness of God by the one man abounded much more to many?" Really? How can you say that when fewer people are being saved by Jesus' death than are being condemned by Adam's sin? How can you say that when one has to put forth effort to benefit from Jesus' death while no effort is needed to "benefit" from Adam's sin? Truth be told, the condemnation of God by the one man's sin abounds much more to many than the undeserved kindness to be had by the death of Jesus.

  
  
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  23

  Putin the Pressure Up!

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/05/nato-rapid-reaction-force-counter-russia-ukraine.

  http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/02/08/russia-investors-on-war-watch-wednesday/.

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11397924/ukraine-crisis-europe-and-us-debate-how-to-handle-russia-live.html.

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  Island Man

  I think the govts think that Putin is just craving attention and that's why nobody is making a big deal about it - or making less of a deal about it than the incidents actually warrant. They see Putin as a desperate attention seeker trying to make himself and his country relevant and they're retaliating against him by not giving him the political and military attention that he craves.